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Do you feel nobody is listening to your music? If you obsess about how many likes you are getting on social media and worry nobody really cares, there is a way out and it's NOT online marketing! Find out how to free yourself from comparison anxiety and turn around self-criticism with one simple technique. 

Fiona Liddell is a singer, composer and violinist from Glasgow. Her recent release "The Lockdown Session" is a compilation of songs she has written throughout her ten years of performing accompanied with piano from her husband, Sam. She has performed all over the country in various different bands and musical projects.


  • How to turn self-criticism around
  • The relationship between creative expression and freeing the voice
  • How to use recording to become a better singer
  • How to avoid seeking validation, stop comparing yourself to others and what to do instead
  • The impact of screen time on creative expression and a surprising way to create more balance


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Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of dare to be seen. I'm your host Elisa Di Napoli and today's episode features Fiona and Liddell. Fiona is a singer composer and violinist from Glasgow. Her recent release. The lockdown sessions is a compilation of songs she's written throughout her. 10 years of performing are competent with piano from her husband, Sam. She has performed all over the UK in various different bands and musical projects. Before we meet our guest for today, I would like to invite you to go to tiny discount, and you will be able to get 20% off my online course there to be seen, where you will discover how to magnify your presence and command stage in 10 easy steps. So you can perform at your best in front of a larger audience. And now here's our gas for today.

Speaker 4: So Fiona, you are joining us today from Edinburgh, I believe, but you originally are from Glasgow, is that correct

Speaker 3: Originally I'm from Eastern Hampshire in Glasgow.

Speaker 4: So for those of you that are listening from other countries, that's Glasgow, UK. And, you're a very accomplished, you're a singer, you're a composer. So, what, what are all these bands you want to tell us a little bit about them

Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't do it. So I guess the most prolific and the most active one would be the wedding band that man called the Apollos, which has been going for about five years now, though. I'm not sure 2020 really counts as of a year for requesting funds, but everything being counseled. And, but that's just a kind of our set list is covering a lot of really classic stuff and a lot of funk rock, and obviously a lot of pop stuff as well, cause that's very popular and we also do live Kaylee as well. So, usually couples are looking for a good mix of both and we can provide that. I'm also in a bond with Jack Hanks woman to bonds actually with Jack hangs and the first one being our original set that we do, which is Jack songs and a couple of mine as well with a federal and acoustic guitar and just lots of lovely harmonies.

Speaker 3: Cause they're just, you can't get off of harmonies really. So it's like a duet saying, and then we also have a covers mine called high fight, which is again, fiddle and guitar, a male or female vocals, just doing lots of lovely harmonies, basically covering more, mainly more time stuff actually. And a couple of other, I guess guilty pleasures would be this 10, like nineties things that you can't quite remember when you hear it, you know, you remember it and you usually what everyone sings along to things like zombie cranberries and things like that. so that's the other one and then my newest bond and it's called and it's, it feels, I feel kind of odd calling it a bond cause it's like me and this producer, Neil Ray, who's from Aberdeen, he's done all the production and an on a bunch of songs as like half heads and half mate. And they're all many electronic with a couple of live instruments as well. So it's technically a band, but you know, it's not too focused on the live performance aspect right now. It was more about, you know, being in the studio and being creative with sense into different signs and stuff and see what we come up with.

Speaker 4: Right. And that is that your own music that you've written yourself or,

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all that's film. We did that one there. So out of the single, the two singles coming out towards the end of the year, Nicolette and greases are both my souls that he's put lots of amazing. Just I think I could even think of how to, how he created that. Just a big Epic landscape of just electronic second sense and stuff and instruments. And, but the songs, the chords and the lyrics are mine, I guess, but everything else is going to fan, right. It's a collaboration. And

Speaker 4: So with this fiber four, five or six bands, and I told you also do music tuition. How do you find the time to, you know, to, to live

Speaker 3: Well, let's say tuition is definitely take it over and recent ones as being the most important thing. So I've phoned lots of, lots of new time to do teaching, but I didn't have before when the wedding bands and the gigs were going on. So that's currently, that's probably my biggest focus. Yeah.

Speaker 4: So it's performing your favorite activity to do a, was it at least before covered started

Speaker 3: it wasn't, it wasn't cause I'm not too natural, elite or frontwoman if that's the term for it, I've not, I'm more about the, you know, singing or playing violin aspects. So I usually let, if it's Jack spun that he's doing the power of the Butler, I guess you'd call it. and then their oppose, it's usually fairly short and sweet, just like thanks very much. Here's the next one and not too much interaction. and I know you've got a book either coming out or it's already.

Speaker 4: No, no, it's, it's been out for a bit. Oh, sorry. That's all right.

Speaker 3: I was told that I thought I should really pick that up cause I would, I'm not, not frightened of performing, but if it comes to, I guess, reffing or doing the banter, the power, but in between songs, I could do some help with that. And my favorite part of being a working musician is probably the, the writing and the creative part. in terms of even just doing rehearsals or that kind of thing, I'm just recording a whole thought of a song. I like to just get it all down and record way too much stuff on top of it. I really enjoy just sitting in a room by myself doing that, but, a little more than performing performing is obviously a really, really great, part of it. And I do really miss it, but I, for me, I really like the composition part and the creating part over everything else. So it would've been just

Speaker 2: Be enough to write performance is important, but, I'm hearing that it's just the parts that where you have to speak to the audience. They're a little bit like, Hmm, what should I say

Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got good. I've got good at it know through necessity, if that made sense, but yeah, not, not too natural at it, I think would be the way I'd describe yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean, that reminds me very much when I first started, I was so bad at it as well. Like I either would just say nothing and just go, okay, well next song is blah, blah. Just say the title and then move on. Or I would talk way too much, you know

Speaker 3: Yeah. That's one thing as well. I think the main feedback I've had, if I'm really nervous about it, cause usually it's that the sort of showcase things, which there's wedding band, where every single person is judging. You see if, you know, you're the bond for them and I'll end up talking really, really, really, really, really fast. And which I get a lot from my dad. My dad also talks really, really, really fast when he's nervous or just what he's trying to do with like speech. So that is the main thing I've tried to tackle is just, I need to speak way slower when I'm doing all this stuff and just say, well, I need to say out if something comes to me naturally great, but I don't need to go a little a little.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I think when, when that happens, yeah. We go into our heads, you know, rather than being grounded and being present. And and that's why I think, you know, well a couple of things that helped me were breathing really slowly and not talking until I took another breath in, but also, just being in my body more and kind of being present in the sense of, I don't know if you've ever done improv, but that really taught me to be present. You know, it was like, when you're an improv, you never you're, you never know what you're going to say. You've never, you know, you don't, you're not prepared, but what it is based on is the actual people in front of you. So it's about observation. So one of the things that that taught me was, when I was in front of an audience is to just observe the audience, you know, and whatever I have to say, it's kind of based on what's actually happening in the moment.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Rather than, you know, having key phrases or that kind of thing, which I think I do a lot, I've got a crutch of like, okay, this worked last time. So I'm going to just say it every time after that, by like your point about observing the audience and judging or reacting, sorry to what's actually going on in the room. So I might try that. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And also, you know, you never know if you've got fun, that's been there to every single gig, you know, they might recognize the material and go, nah, I heard that joke before

Speaker 3: Luckily boards, the weddings, the dog to watch crossover thing. but I imagine, yeah, the people that come to see jazz kicked me, I've heard a few jokes too many times at this point.

Speaker 2: So anyway, going back to your many activities and you obviously are a working musician and you're saying you do tuition. So is that violin tuition,

Speaker 3: It's violent on its vocal tuition as well I do a bit of both. so my vocal tuition is very much directed towards sort of freeing the voice. It's, it's not any particular style I'll tailor it to people's styles that they want, but in general, it's how it is seeing sort of healthily, and movies over then trying to signal specific genre, if that makes sense. and the violin tuition is classical violin up to about grade eight level. but I try not to use too many of the grade mentality just cause it's quite, you need grades to get into uni and that's kind of, it I've kind of phoned as somebody who, you know, doesn't a great day. And then yeah, when you go to uni, it didn't matter what grade you were at. Anything is about what you could do and what you could create. so I try to not put that stress on my students unless they really want to take music further or they want the exam would give them a good goal. Cause I've just done that as well. So I do a mix of that and I also do Scottish fiddle tuition as well. So just playing sort of really older, like very, very old violin stuff that you would usually hear a Kaylee or that kind of thing. Right. Irish shakes, Celtic music, there you go. Celtic fiddle music.

Speaker 2: So, so it sounds to me like, what's really important is creative expression and all of these activities, you know, whether you played a violin or you are trying to sing a song, you know, often I think, we place a lot of importance on perfection. You know, of course it's important to have the technique, but I think what really distinguishes this, you know, one singer from another and the singers attached me are the ones that are really, really, authentic in their creative expression. If you know what I mean

Speaker 3: Yeah. Rather than I dunno, coping, as a certain style or a certain genre or changing the voice to suit what they think they should own, like rather than expressing a bit more personnel into it. Is that what you mean

Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I used to be very worried about that sort of thing. You know, all I've got to hit the note, of course, sure. We do have to hit the nose, but that's just the beginning. That's just the basics. And then what really makes a performance interesting, in my opinion, is the freeing of the voices that you mentioned. So, you know, do you have specific techniques that you use with your students that help them free themselves, especially if they are introverted or

Speaker 3: That's The biggest thing I think was saying to overcome is the shyness and the psychological view. That's almost instilled in us from, from somewhere between when we're a child and we're an adult that's singing and if you're bad at it, it's an embarrassing thing. And if you have that mentality and that shyness about your voice or you're quite introverted about it and you're, what's going to come out, that's an immediate sort of blockade into the freeing of your voice sort of thing. So what I tend to recommend quite heavily after the first stages is mainly learning about the functional biology of how the voice works and the respiratory system and all the, the lots of names for all the various things and how you can tap into recognizing when it's working, when it's not working. And after that point and with signing a couple of exercises or a couple of songs, I really heavily recommend just recording themselves a little bit and listening back to it.

Speaker 3: Right. Because that starts the very slow disintegration of that blockade because it's, it's kind of, I describe it a lot. Like, you know, what your face looks like, but it's only when you look in a mirror that you're like, Oh yeah, that's I kind of get it, but now I can see exactly what it is with your singing voice. There's this weird, you have this idea of what it says, like in your head and then hearing it for the first time. It's always completely different. It's always not what you think is going to be. So if you're a new singer or you've not heard your voice in the while recording and hearing it back, it will feel quite strange and it will change your perception of it a bit, but it should be a good thing in the end. If we can get to the point where you can, you're aware of your voice, you get to know it. You can recognize when it's making the sound that you want just through habit and repetition, repetitive prices. Sorry. It should start to become a more natural habit for you to get to that tool where you hear parts that you like. So I heavily recommend recording your voice from quite an early stage and seeing the development on and getting to know it a bit better than you would without that aid. Basically it's kinda like playing guitar or violin with your plugs in.

Speaker 2: So that's sounds all good in terms of figuring out what to do better. And when you hear yourself, being recorded, do you find that people freak out ever recording around voice and criticize themselves a bit too much

Speaker 3: Kind of yeah. A hundred percent of the time, because every time somebody, years of seldom are what age they are, what level they're at, just recording your voice and hearing it back as if it's just a huge cult of distance to how you think you said it, then you hear it back. but I, I, I find it, yeah, they are very self critical, but we all are. We first here, I think. but from that point, I try and ask them take notes and what they didn't like about their voice. and we do some exercises to sort of, either yeah, basically do some exercises to improve what they think is wrong with it and build around that and work on trying to find a sound that they themselves like, cause that's the most important thing is that you have to like your own voice.

Speaker 3: yeah. So that's the, when they start being really self critical, I try and turn it into a good thing, right. By picking out the, the issues that we can fix with it, obviously you can't change your voice to be somebody else's that be insane, but we can do the best we have with your own instrument and get the best result. And the first thing to do is actually yeah, break down what you don't like about it. And if we can find a way like placing the voice is really important. So finding a different exercise with different Bellstones different genres is really important. So you sing in a different way for different songs, with different styles. and a couple of the things like just dynamics is really important and proper breathing is important because quite often when you're putting, putting yourself on, when you're recording your own voice for the first time, it's quite nerve wracking as well.

Speaker 3: So as I said before, that has a psychological inside the machine not want to be load and disrupts the breathing process. and hearing that back for the first time is going to be not what you think is because of all these other factors. So it's trying to find ways after that point to tackle that nervousness and tackle that lack of confidence in your voice as well. and a lot of that is done to the student. I can help them in like a couple of ways to show them like breathing exercise and that sort of thing they can do to get over it. And again, just recording it will help. And getting used to that process will help you get more comfortable and less nervous hopefully with your voice, the more you do.

Speaker 4: Right. So did you have this problem yourself when you were starting out or was it more natural for you I can't really,

Speaker 3: I really remember too much. I remember I always, yeah, a bunch of times I've recorded myself, listen back and thought I can do better than that. Let's do that again, but that's less, I think it comes from a different place now that, I'm experienced at recording vocals and recording myself. And I know what my voice sounds like. back at the star, when I first started recording it, I must've been about seven or eight or something for some audition or something like that. And I think it did freak me out a bit. I remember the first time I did the brow when I was in primary school. and that freaked me out a lot. Cause I didn't know I could do that. I think, yeah, I've, I've signed pretty much my whole life, so I can't quite pinpoint the point where I went.

Speaker 3: That sounds dreadful or that doesn't sound like, I think it sounded, it probably was when I first started recording my EAP, when I was like 14. So this was years ago, hearing myself back. I felt that sounds like a, a child. I thought I were thinking that, but there was a reason for that. I was it, well, that's probably why. And I was a bit disappointed. and my voice as a result, especially listening back to it. No, I think, well it dropped it off to somewhere, somewhere in there. so I'd say I have experience with that and I have experienced of it now listening to myself back, whether it's been recorded either by me or by a studio or bytes, showcase videos and like that. And I listen back and say, I can do that bar. And I look at it and think right, what went wrong there if they're in there and I try to practice a bit more and to tackle that issue head on. So next time that doesn't happen.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I love, I love your attitude because instead of self-criticism, you're actually making changes, you're using whatever doesn't work and then you're just improving on it without beating yourself up because it wasn't perfect in the first place. But I wanted to ask you about then, how did your love for making music surface in your life You know, do you come from a music family or what got you into it

Speaker 3: I come from a music loving family, definitely. I think I was exposed to music quite heavily when I was younger by my mum, my dad playing, lots of female singer songwriters. And I actually a mix of both genders, actually just female singer. So it was a male singer song writers, in the car on long journeys and dad always put tapes or CDs on Martin where we are in the house or holiday, wherever it was, there was always music going on. and mom likes to tell a story about if I just was having a well, having thrown a wobbly, I guess you call it having a tantrum. And when I was very, very, a logistical and egg and Enya, sorry, this TechOne Andrea and just locked me in the car and they would always, they would always sing to me and that sort of thing.

Speaker 3: So we signed together from when I was very, very young and I had another story from my mom, is that probably my childminder at the time again, I was at a prom at this point and the childminder came back and said, she's saying all the words to these, these songs. And she can just say us enters, but she's singing these words and it's all the tutors. It's all fine. And yeah, that was a weird, I think, realization for mom, the, you know, this child's going to be a bit more musical and in terms of writing songs, that was, my dad mainly I learned, I started learning violin when I was eight and that kind of started the process of like, I was able to read music. and I was at see and communicate with, what was written down and I wanted to figure out how I could do that.

Speaker 3: So my dad taught me guitar when I was nine or 10, I think. And a certain point I kind of just w that was when the internet was starting to come in a bit stronger in terms of, you don't have to use dial up, basically, you're starting to get routers and wireless and all this stuff. So I was able to look up all these guitar songs, and think the picking parents and stuff, and play around with them. And that's kind of how it started. I was about 10, 11 ish. I started to get really confident with guitar. I started to write my own songs that way. And then I took some piano lessons. Didn't take the piano as well, the two, two guitar, but it's good to have as, background knowledge. Cause now I primarily write on piano, just finding the, the weirdest chords possible and string them together. So it's gotten to the stage where, rather than, you know, using a guitar guitar and three cars in the Capitol, I'm there trying find the weirdest core progression possible.

Speaker 2: Right. So, and would you say that your songwriting process is more based on the music Does it start with the music, the melody or the harmony, or does it start with delivery

Speaker 3: It's definitely starts with either a melody or chord. So one of the two, so either starts with me finding the chord progression and trying to just hum over it or sing over it, or it starts with me, finding, a melody in my head that I then pop on piano, find the cars behind it. and I get told there's better cars by my husband who comes in and does that instead. and the lyrics definitely come last for me. I used to write with lyrics farce or I used to write with melody and chords first and lyrics were, I wanted to tell like a really intricate personal story with them. And that was my aim. This is when I was, sort of a teenager age. And now I've gotten to the stage where I might have an idea in mind, but I, I prefer having songs that feel quite open or you're not quite sure what they're about and different people take different messages from them. And I like hearing everyone's different interpretation of them. It's really interesting to me. So I tried to go for the slightly more abstract approach to writing lyrics now than when I used to

Speaker 2: You say that your music revolves around a specific topic or is it particularly, you know, you might be a particularly passionate about something or is there no real message as such

Speaker 3: A lot of it reflects what's it used to be quite internal No, I think a lot of it reflects whatever's going on at the time. So there's obviously a couple of pandemic songs. They never say it's cool over time that are, so this is why I don't write directly. So I'm terrible at it, but they done surrounds it with like poetic metaphorical words and that kind of thing. So it means, it means the, the idea had the original idea had to me, but somebody else it might be a boat, their breakup, or it might be about politics. It might be about heartbreak. It could be anything. but to me, the original idea kicks off the sort of, the rhythm of it and the, the flow, the poetry of it. But it's all quite, it's a lot of it's based in imagery as well, which is quite hard to pin down. So I think that if I told everybody there original an idea of playing these songs, it was kind of ruin the mystique of what each one is a boat. Not there isn't much mystique really making it so more impressive than it is

Speaker 2: Now. You're being modest.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Like I've got one up a nuclear war and I've got one of the FGM and I've got one of it locked down, I've got one, a boat being in love with my phone, you know, it's, it's quite a wide range now. There's not too much of a direct, you know, I'm going to write 12 songs about this thing and make it a concept album. I don't really do that too often. Right.

Speaker 2: So your albums like the live album that is coming out and your future releases are there collection then of songs that you've already written and you put them together in an album or so already there is a theme.

Speaker 3: Usually it's usually songs from different periods of, in this space of a year. So obviously it's a bit slower that way, but it's, it gives us a wider range of topics to cover. So this one coming up and next year, the home recorded. One is a collection of songs I've written since I'm the first one on there raised. I was about 14 when I wrote that one. And then I think the second song on the album screen time is my second, most recent one. And so it's seeing this big spread of a boat will hold them. I know, but 12 years, 10, 12 years over a decade of written music. And I thought it'd be an interesting idea to take one from when I was very young to where I'm at. No. and the spread in between. So it's kind of like a timeline, I guess, this one at lockdown sessions with like a timeline, but the next one should hopefully be a bunch of new songs written a bit tighter space and time than 10 years, because 10 years is quite a long time to, to craft an album.

Speaker 2: Have you noticed then a change, in terms of how you write songs apart from what we've already discussed, but in terms of themes, you know, that's related to your age or, or not really, you know, to explain what I mean is I've met a lot of singer songwriters, including myself, used to write songs, have a very, you know, personal and about relationships and about, you know, teenage angst and all that stuff. And then as we've gotten a bit older, awfully wiser, I started to kind of look more outside of ourselves and, and, what's happening in the world. I mean, has that been the case for you

Speaker 3: I completely agree with that. Yeah. I think that's, what's happened. a perfect example is that the first song on the album raised is very much about the street I grew up in. And then the next three, I think cover a variety of topics that have absolutely nothing to do with me, really their comments on the digital age and how we spend too much time low devices, or we spend the private modes over advices. It depends on how you look at it. There's no clear like opinion in that one. And then there's, yeah, there's a big spread of, of different topics from that point. But I definitely remember writing about really when you look back on them, nothing breakups and nothing, family problems, that kind of thing. When I was very young and now it's definitely much more of an external thing and what interests me, when I look outside of myself, cause I, I don't find it conceited it's per se, but I think personal songs, both things you're going through, I think they can be useful, but I'm not sure how relatable they are to everybody else, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3: So thanks something that's a bit more external, a bit more kind of like a poem written about, a subject that you've heard about and you're interested in. I think that's a bit more interesting

Speaker 2: And, you know, you've talked about screen time and of course, now that we are stuck at home, a loss and country Lee, you have parties or gigs. we spend a lot, a long time in front of screens. And, do you feel that that has an impact on new creative expression And if so, how do you reconcile it

Speaker 3: I would say it does. I would say weirdly it's, it's been more later in Lockton and this has been an issue for me, with the album release and everything. It's been a case of, you know, every sort of five, 10 minutes going on the Spotify for our, so the app committee for ours and be like, Ooh, how many students that got what's happening here Is this campaign working, is this social media ad working what's happening So there's a lot of looking at my phone or my laptop for various things, and it is quite distracting and often the times that can consume the D just in numbers. so I'd say that's how it's changed. and I'm trying in terms of rectifying it, I'm trying to read a bit more, in terms of books, I always liked physical books. I wasn't, I've tried to get into audio books and everyone's told me how amazing they are and they're great, but I just can't stop falling asleep, listening to it.

Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what the book's about. I just can't. So just falling asleep during it is terrible. So I like having a physical book in my hand. So I'm trying to, I've got three books on the go right now. And I say that very like, sorry, precariously, because there are three books that I read a better of and then put down for a couple of months and then pick up again. So it's very slow, but I'm trying really slowly to get better at reading. Cause I think that gives my eyes a bit more of a residence, the sort of glare of the screen and books take my eyes away from these numbers and obsessing about, you know, what's getting late swearing, what's getting streamed wearing that kind of thing. And it takes you away from that world for a sec, a very boring world.

Speaker 2: Yeah. He's an a, I find that, soul destroying, you know, and actually makes me anxious, you know, having to worry so much about what other people are thinking and are they like him, my post it, I think it can be a dangerous game because it can impact the self esteem as well.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely has. I've struggled with anxiety before the internet and everything when I was very young, it still carried into my life now. And I think that what you said there is very accurate, the sort of worrying about who's liking this and this and why isn't it translating to, you know, whatever that would be like an interaction, like a comment or listening to it, why isn't this happening And clearly it's something that's with me and with my work or they just don't like me personally. And it's taken me a very long time to get off of that attitude of that get off latitude.

Speaker 2: So how have you successfully, you know, stopped that kind of thinking

Speaker 3: Actually, a very recent discovery I've made with the letting go of the self criticism and the self esteem issues. and it's come from having a really supportive, group during this lockdown period. Cause I live with my husband and I also live with Neil Reed, the gaffer gas producer, I mentioned before, and he's our flatmate. and when this light, this live album was really the turning point because I was approached to do a live stream for a compilation album, that the song that's going to be at the beginning nuclear, and it's going to be on this compilation album as well. And the lady who is organizing that would put on a, like a live gig that would get this is ages ago. This was the start of the year. She was put on like a big, proper gig at somewhere in Edinburgh with all the acts here, we're going to feature on the album, but that didn't happen.

Speaker 3: She asked if we could do a live stream stairs. and at that point back at the start of the year in March, I just, I wouldn't say no because I hadn't really performed my own stuff life. And since I was a Bo eating, I'd done a couple of songs here and there, but hadn't done a full set of my own material and say writing the whole time, I thought that it was, I had that anxiety. I thought this isn't good enough normal it's to hear it. and that held me back and I was really afraid to perform any of the songs I'd written properly. A lot of it is comparison as well to other artists or people, you know, and how well they're doing or what they're, how good the stuff they're producing is. And you think my stuff is nowhere near that level, so it's not ready and I'll never be ready and so on.

Speaker 3: But luckily my husband's, over the series of many, many like discussions about it really convinced me that, you know, we're going to, it'll be fun. First of all, we'll take all these songs with piano backing and we'll flesh them out and also sound great. What we're Harris Lords, we'll get it sorted. We'll produce something that you'll be proud of. I promise. And having somebody else sort of contradicts the constant voices in your head of this is not good enough and it never will be to have someone outside of yourself, even if it is your husband has got to see that stuff by law. Anyway, it really helps to quell that that gave me a bit more courage than I would have had previously.

Speaker 2: Totally. I mean, you know, you could, you have a bad ass who criticizes you all the time, but you were lucky you were.

Speaker 3: I've been there. It's fine. That maybe where it stems from to be fair, but last,

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we have to be our own husbands as well in our own hands, you know, prepare, pretend that there's someone else in there who's encouraging instead of putting us down all the time, but I get it. It's a, it's just a habit, you know And, I think it's about catching it, catching it every time and realizing, okay, this is just an old record. You know, we're stuck, we're stuck on the record. Let's, let's get the record off the record player, break it, throw it out the window and put a different record on

Speaker 3: Another thing I realized I hadn't listened to any of my friend's stuff or anybody I have these bands I was aware of. I was very bad at listening to their stuff. So who was I to suddenly ask them to listen to my stuff So I've done as well as I've put a playlist together. I've always different bonds. And I listened through hours and hours and hours of their music to I've always ever bothered me. I made a playlist of it and try promoting that alongside the album, along with a couple of reviews of the, this, these other bonds, there's always Scottish bands and acts their music so that I could just sort of encourage a bit more just feedback and communication and the community that we don't really seem to have currently. So that's helped me a little bit with the whole of no, one's listening to my stuff.

Speaker 3: Why maybe it's because you're not listening to their stuff. So I think being engaged in the music community in Scotland or wherever you want to call it and listening to this stuff and actually promoting it, I think has helped again with the anxiety of, Oh, nobody listened to this. It's that old record thing, changing the record have changed it to try and just be more engaged. And rather than compat comparing myself to all these artists and thinking, you know, Oh, I'm still not good. Why is my stuff not good I'm trying to find bits of it that I like that I think, Oh, I could do something like that. Or that's a great idea. Or, you know, changing it from that, you know, horrible person. Who's just like, well, they're doing really well. And you'll never be that good changing it to being, I really like what they've done there. Maybe I'll try something like that next time and

Speaker 2: Say this, this is making me feel fantastic because I'm like, I'm not the only one who does this, you know

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 2: No. Great. And then you're giving me great ideas, but this is one of the reasons why I'm doing this podcast because you're right. You know, it's about supporting each other and being interested and engaged. And then, you know, it's a lot more fun because then we can exchange ideas and maybe I can learn a bit from you and maybe you can learn a bit from me. And the whole thing becomes a heck of a lot more fun than going, Oh, she's so much better at whatever, you know, high pitches and whatever. I don't know.

Speaker 3: Typical high pitches. It's fine. No, I completely agree. Because as we were saying a bit before about, you know, recording stuff and rather than just walking away from it and be like, cool, I'm just never going to say again, actively trying to change it, improve it and practice on it. There's a weird thing with singers. I think in particular, if someone, if they hear someone that they view as better than them, there is a tendency to throw in the towel and say, well, clearly they're a bitch and I'm awful as well. So there's nothing there, but you know, you can take inspiration if you take inspiration from singers instead, you'll feel much better and you'll learn something as well. I think, which is really important.

Speaker 2: It's like sisterhood and stuff. Yeah, absolutely. I do agree that it's, much better to have that kind of attitude. I mean, have you encountered people that have had bitchy attitudes that have been like, you know, that sort of comparison and putting other people down or has it been more of a supportive community at least with other women

Speaker 3: With other women I would say personally, I haven't had much in the way of, you know, bitchy comments coming me from like a third party or something from somebody else, but I have one or two, but nothing that really, you know, lost any sleep over. I do hear quite often from this is, this is specifically about the wedding band community. I guess I do hear a little bit from the male musicians that they, how they hold the opinion that singers are generally divas or a bit bitchy in terms of the mean, but other singers behind their box, that kind of idea. And that being perpetuated that they cause a bad as, as a very bad sort of overarching attitude to have, but when we're in person or female singers, we're all super lovely to each other. And I don't really think there's a reason to assume otherwise apart from the fight, but that's the attitude that some male musicians seem to think we have about each other.

Speaker 3: I will say I do compare, I do compare myself to these other cigars and I think, well, that was great when I was younger, I probably did think, well, they're, you know, just better again, I'm going to just do terribly and whatever, but now I try and find the things they do that I want to either bring into my singing style or things they do that. I would do differently thinking that's interesting that they've chosen that. And I, I know, I don't really remember. I'm going to be honest. I probably have gone like water, seeing performance and gone. I wouldn't do that. That's not a good idea or something like that, but I think that's true of every different instrument. You'll see somebody doing what you do and you might have a think about like, Oh, I don't really like what they've done there, you know And I think that's okay. And it shouldn't be labeled as a bitchy comment because they're both female. If that sense, I think.

Speaker 2: Right. That's interesting because I mean, I wonder if, if it had been a man commenting on another man, you know, how would we be calling that, man

Speaker 3: I think there'd be less, there would be no assumption that he was being a bit sure that he was being jealous or anything. I don't think, I think it would probably be seen as a, you know, a professional comment, which is unfortunate that that's not seen the same way when the genders are swapped and trusting. Isn't a double standard, but again, if you can, you know what, I'm trying to do a bit more with the playlist with reviewing, and maybe even do go on podcasts at some point, but that's very far down the line, as promoting an attitude of, okay, I want to compliment people and lift up their original music and their performances rather than, you know, watching it for four seconds and scrolling on. I'd quite like to actually be a N a promoter, but like be an advocate for, encouraging people to do this and feeling like they're not being judged harshly.

Speaker 3: I'd like them to feel like somebody is listening. Basically, if nothing else, somebody is listening and somebody is enjoying it. So if I can promote the attitudes with, just my own social media accounts or just in conversation as well, if I just say, we heard about this bond that this person or this person it's, I think I've felt better since I've started doing that. So I would encourage everyone to do what you're doing and yeah, anything you can find that similar, just find music you like from people you like and tell somebody else about it just flat easy,

Speaker 2: Right Yeah. That's pretty, pretty straightforward, but also, you know, it's, it's reminded me of, what it was like when we were younger and just starting out, at least for me, when I was starting out, I was quite insecure and it would have been nice to have someone perhaps older who had listened to me or I'd encouraged me and, you know, just letting me know that it's going to get better. It's okay. You know, you can make mistakes, you don't have to be perfect. So I guess one thing I want to ask you would be around that and it's, you know, what advice would you give to someone just starting out on this journey specifically A woman.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I think right now is a brilliant time to be starring as a female musician. So say you're nine or 10, or even if you're like in your twenties, do you think I'm going to give us a Bosch I'm always going to, you have idols absolutely everywhere. You have, lots and lots of amazing, Theo musicians and charts all over the world. And if you, cause if you just look at, if I look at, if I think about what the kids are teaching now, teaching violin to, or teaching vocals to they'll want to sing songs by Billie Eilish, Arianna Grandy. And you could argue that some of these people might be a little bit too commercial or too mainstream, but it's still an example of a woman in music doing extraordinarily well. And there's so many of those examples now. So I would say, look, just look around you, look at what you like about these women who are doing extraordinarily well and what can you take and learn from that

Speaker 3: And it's going to be difficult. It's going to be really difficult because thankfully there are so many of us, but at the same time, it's hard to be hired above the noise. So you've got to remember to keep a little bit of the reason why you're doing it to be for yourself and for your enjoyment, because if you're just doing it to get famous or be hired or that kind of thing, it's probably not going to last too long. So you got to remember to enjoy it the whole time, even when it gets really tough. And you think like you were saying before, I'm going to throw in the towel and I'm terrible and everyone's awful.

Speaker 3: Try and remember it's for your own enjoyment, playing live, recording, writing, whatever is find some enjoyment. And if it's not working today, you can try it tomorrow efforts getting really frustrating. You can, you know, walk away and take a break and come back to writing or rehearsing later, it's not the end of the world. So just, yeah. Minimizing the stress you put on yourself for the validation of other people. I think if you are, yeah. If you are performing something or writing something with the specific reason being that other people have to hear this, it doesn't matter if I like it or not. You've already shot yourself in the foot. I think you've got to keep it a little bit personal in terms of just, this is your passion and this is what is making you happy. If it's not making you happy. I don't really know what you're doing here. That would be my very rambly advice.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you're really onto something there. You know, the idea that you are doing this because validation is a bit of a trap because even if you do get the validation, it's not something that you can actually control. So eventually you might not get it. And then when you don't have it, where is your self esteem You're not going to like it anymore. You're not going to like making music anymore. And you might even, yeah, you might even lose the enjoyment you had before and it's just too fragile and too much power to give other people

Speaker 3: Yeah. Validation of other people. when you account line and say that it's not great. Cause I was saying before, I love hearing people's stories or their, or what they think our songs about. I think that's really interesting. and it is sometimes hard to write something purely for the sake of it or just because you want to, sometimes it's hard to remember. That's where you started out. It was writing it for yourself. cause you get swept up in the sort of, Oh, I've got, there's some buzz about something right now. Okay. But really something else really quickly, you don't have to, you can let them come naturally still. And only when you're happy with it, you don't labels or somebody else or whatever is happy with it. You're allowed to, you know, just put out there. Okay.

Speaker 5: It's time to share some of your music, with our audience. And before you do, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the song that you're going to play. So can you tell us about the song reach

Speaker 3: Yep. It was originally written a few years ago during our rehearsals for, a friend's show and professional friend show with the low poets. it was a backing, ref that I, the piano was just a slight come with for one of my friend, Kevin McClain's poems called childhood memories, which was a lot of boat, the sea. And it was about nostalgia and those were the kind of themes of the poem itself. So I took that and wrote the chorus for it during that fringe show and during the rehearsals and just performed boom, 30, 40 times, something like that very, very long month of just playing, backing music to, to spoken word poetry. and during that time, myself and Jack Hanks, who I've mentioned previously craft the, into a full song and it's also without the poetry with verse chorus verse, that kind of structure. and this is yet the end result.

Speaker 5: Ryan I think on the facts, the sons, the nada

Speaker 4: Well, thank you for that. That was lovely. And so before I let you go, tell me a little bit about what's the next level for you. You've got some release is coming out. And so my next, official release will be with gaffer Gates, which is G E

Speaker 3: F a H R G E I S T is first of all, to spell ILI that's too long and that's going to be on all sorts doing platforms in September and it's graceless, which is again, one of the souls from the live album, but done with just electronic sense and popping more poppy vibes and with S there's lovely harp as well. Should we say to add to it as well And that will be out in September with a music video done by, Taylor Mortimer. Who's a, an artist who we're working with for just lots and lots of artwork and his stuff is incredible. It's so beautiful looking. So look him up as well. If you want to see some beautiful digital digital arts, and then later in the year, we're going to be releasing Nikila, which is a Sony heritage. Start with podcasts.

Speaker 3: That's again with gaffer ghosts. And again, that will be absolutely everywhere. You can look my name up, or you can look for Geist stop where you, wherever you look for fiona liddell , you'll probably see these relapses. So just give it a Google or a Facebook search and you'll find it there. Awesome. We'll include those links in the show notes. So thank you again for being on the show. It's been really lovely having you it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

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